Weatherby Nation

My .308 VG1 is a normal rifle (not marketed as sub-MOA), and shoots sub-MOA with my hand loads. I shot enough factory stuff through it that I should know if it was sub-MOA with factory loads...but don't remember.

My kids .308 Howa shoots sub-MOA (I think more accurate than mine) with my hand loads...again, don't know if it was with factory ammo.

My .243 VG1 shoots sub-MOA with factory ammo. Both Core Lokt and Power Shok both shoot sub-MOA (the federals are a bit tighter).

So, it appears to me that the non-sub-MOA VG1 was sub-MOA, even though they only guaranteed a 1.5 inch accuracy (1.5 MOA) with premium bullets.

So, what makes the VG2 more accurate? I know it has a different trigger...but truthfully, the stock triggers on the VG1 are pretty good. I put a timney on my .308 just because I think it is stupid to have to take the safety off to remove a bullet from the chamber...not because I thought it was a better trigger. Kids trigger is a stock 3 position trigger, and my .243 has a stock 2 position trigger. So I don't see that the 2 stage trigger makes the VG2 more accurate.

So what is it? Is the barrel different? Better stock? Bedded? Or is is just that they always knew they had a damn good rifle and are advertising the same gun with a different trigger as more accurate as a marketing ploy?

Anyone?

SeanWeatherby VG1 .308 w/timney trigger
Weatherby VG1 .243
Howa 1500 .308

I don't reallly care as long as they shoot how they do. .Most S1 would do it as you stated .Nice to have the guarantee though don't you think?Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

   Part of the S2 sub-MOA marketing, I think, is that the rifles were already that good, as was pointed out earlier.  A better trigger helps any rifle: I believe the two-stage trigger on the S2 is an improvement over the trigger that was on the Vanguard. Perhaps Howa tweeked-up their quality control or something better with the barrels, maybe not, and those two things led to the decision to make them all sub-MOA capable.
   I've been in discussions about what is the most critical part of the rifle---stock, trigger, or barrel. There hasn't been a full answer, to no surprise. To me, they're equally important and the nut behind the rifle is the most important part.
   Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

Question: tell me of a rifle made by a company besides Weatherby that:
--has a sub-MOA guarentee
--comes in as many (or more) standard and magnum chamberings
--is in a matte and stainless finish
--comes in stardard and accuracy-tested (Range Certified) models
--starting price at $450 (as I saw in Cableas for a 308 Win)
--has a 24" barrel as opposed to a 22"

Anyone?Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

TC Venture srings to mind. Oh and it's made in the USA and has a floated barrel.  The Tikka T3 is the other one. Probably going to run a little more money but not much.  Not made in the USA (like the VG) also has a free floated barrel and a barrel made by Sako.
The trigger is user adjustable to 2 pounds.  Both of those have sub MOA marketing hype too.  It's not like Weatherby doesn't have competition in the entry level rifle department. I think they do a pretty good job of it for the most part.  With the exception of more and more non metalic parts all the time.  Most rifles will shot an inch at a 100 yards unless there is something really wrong somewhere.  The Sub MOA thing is a lot of noise.

I bought a S2 in 243 for my boys, and have put two boxes of shells throught it.  Preston and Ashton are 8 and 7 yrs old and both shot  2'' groups with it at 100 yrd I've owned and shot Weatherbys for years and this one shoots very well for what I paid for vs. MK V and sub vanguards.  I am going to clean, re-foul sometime this week and expect groups to tighten up alittle.  It shot well with 55 gr fed ball tips and rem 100 gr core-lokts.  arkansas, weatherby, and me

Chip: you make some fine points about the T/C and the Tikka. There is no denying the entry-level competition is strong vs the S2 Vanguard. Dave Petzal made a great review of the S2 at this year's SHOT Show, calling the rifle perfect except that they're not make for lefties.

A Tikka T3 is nothing to laugh at. I've heard lots of good stuff about them. My buddy took a Tikka .308 Win to Africa and got a whole wall full of great game. Not one got away and everything went down on the first shot. Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

Eford I have a T3 lite. It seems to be an ok rifle the thing I'd change is the stock. That thing is the most slippery rifle stock I have ever had my paws on.  

That's a group shot with a 1980s VGL in 308 So I'm not buying that the new ones are somehow a bettter quality rifle. As a matter of fact mine is all made of steel and wood. No fillers or artificial flavors added. No plastic or injection molding no two stage trigger.     

Pretty good shooting there Chip, you missed the dime though."In politics stupidity is not a handicap." - Napolean Bonaparte

You also have to mention that the new VG2 has an extruded receiver, not a forged one like the older Vanguards.

To reply to some of you here, I think WInchester  is giving a Sub MIA or is it MOA, but a costlier rifle, The 308 T3 your friend took to Africa, I think it was the cartridge that did the suberb killing not the make of rifle. When I was looking at the Vanguard this fall, the V2 if I remember right has an aluminum stifner in the stock, forend, where the V1 does not, besides the trigger difference,  I bought the older model, I do not like a 2 stage trigger and there was over a hundred dollar difference. I removed part of the metal on the saftey that would lock the bolt when the saftey is on.Thanks, Bob
So many animals, and so few seasons